Brewers make wort, yeast make beer.
Part of the Year of the Sour Mash series.
If you have been homebrewing for even a short amount of time you have probably heard that statement. As much as we would like to think that we are in control, it is our microscopic little friends that determine the quality of our batch; brewers are little more than glorified yeast wranglers. Thus, when fellow homebrewers ask me what they can do to improve the quality of their beer the first thing I always tell them is: “make a yeast starter.” Proper amounts of healthy, happy yeast make delicious beer free from off-flavors; simple as that.
Time to let you in on a little secret: yeast are not the only things that make beer! Myriad organisms such as Brettanomyces, wild Saccharomyces, Pediococcus, and Lactobacillus will happily feast upon the wort you just created and leave you with beer (and those are just the organisms that produce favorable characteristics). Indeed, it is these organisms that folks interested in making sour or funky beers will harness to produce the character they are looking for. However, whether you are making a clean beer with “regular” yeast or a sour/funky beer with these other organisms, one thing remains the same: proper amounts of healthy, happy <insert organism(s) of choice> make delicious beer free from off-flavors. When folks tell me their sour mashes go bad I liken it to folks saying their regular beers went bad, only to find out they pitched a single vial of old yeast into 1.090 OG wort at 95ºF. A little bit of preparation practically guarantees a successful souring; whatever your organism of choice is, make a starter!
lactobacillus – isis325 
If you have been following along with Year of the Sour Mash you will know we are primarily interested in the fast, clean souring of Lactobacillus to sour our mash/wort. Whether you are pitching a pure culture of Lactobacillus or growing a wild culture from grains, I have created this Lactobacillus starter guide to help you propagate the quantities needed to ensure your beer sours cleanly.
Supplies
(Images/links lead to MoreBeer! where you can purchase them if you need)
If you have ever made a yeast starter, with a few small exceptions you likely already have everything you need–you do not even need a stir plate!
– I use this in my fermentation fridge to turn the fridge into an insulated hot-box. I can keep the starter at an even ~115ºF using this pad.Instructions
My instructions are for 5 gallons of packaged beer with 5.5 gallons going into the fermentor; if you brew 10 gallon batches just double my recommendations. I am also of the opinion that it is hard to over-pitch either yeast or bacteria, so feel free to cut my recommendations in half. Just remember: the more you pitch, the faster and cleaner it sours 🙂
Wild Lactobacillus
I am a fan of “rolling the dice” with wild strains when it comes to souring with Lactobacillus–there is an amazing spectrum of character available “for free” that you cannot find from commercial pitches–so this is the method I employ the most. We will be culturing the natural Lactobacillus from the grains, so the key is dropping the pH as quickly as you can to impede other organisms from taking hold; trivial to accomplish in a starter with the 88% lactic acid. When paired with my sour mashing method I have never had a souring go bad.
1. Create a starter with 200 g DME, 2L of filtered tap water, and a pinch of yeast nutrient.
2. Add 1/2 tsp 88% lactic acid (should get pH down < 4.5)
3. Chill to ~110ºF, add 2 cups uncrushed malt.
4. Top the starter off with carbonated water. This will purge oxygen and reduce headspace.
5. Cap flask with airlock. This will ensure the aerobic competitors do not get the oxygen they need to produce off-flavors.
6. Keep the starter as warm as you can (~110ºF is best) for 2-3 days. I use a reptile heater pad in my fermentation fridge as a hot-box. Strain then pitch directly into wort.
Cultured Lactobacillus
Growing a pure batch of cultured Lactobacillus is not too different than growing a pure batch of cultured Saccharomyces and uses the same time scale as the wild Lactobacillus instructions. The good news is that many pure cultures can be propagated at room temperature. Please refer to the Milk the Funk wiki article on Lactobacillus for precise recommendations for your strain. This is also the method I would use when pitching yogurt or probiotics as my Lactobacillus source.
- Create a starter with 200 g DME, 2L of filtered tap water, and a pinch of yeast nutrient.
- Chill starter to temperature listed in the Milk the Funk wiki.
- Pitch vial of bacteria.
- Top flask off with carbonated water.
- Plug flask with airlock*.
* L. brevis actually benefits from oxygen on a stir plate. If culturing L. brevis, cover with aluminum foil or foam stopper and stir it up. - 2-3 days later, pitch directly into mash/wort.
Easy peasy! When pitching a Lactobacillus starter into my sour mash/wort I have seen the pH reach 3.3 in as little as 24 hours, so be sure you keep a close eye on pH levels and be ready to finish the boil (or whatever your next steps are) as soon as the mash/wort is where you want it.
Happy souring!
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In lieu of lactic acid, I assume I could use some acid malt. Any idea how to calculate how much?
The rule of thumb is 10% of acidulated malt as part of the malt bill reduces the pH by 1.0. Or, for a 2L starter I’d say 2 oz of crushed acidulated malt would be roughly equivalent.
It’s waaaaay easier to just use food grade acid though 🙂
What’s the purpose of the foil on your reptile heating pad? Does it take a while to get it up to 110?
The foil is only because there’s an adhesive on the top of the pad and I didn’t want it sticking everywhere.
I usually put the flask in at 110F, so it’s mostly just maintaining the temp.
Can I use crushed base malt instead, as I buy my malts already crushed?
Yep, that’s fine too. I just find it adds some starches and haze which I prefer to avoid.
How do you remove the grains after the lacto are grown? I normally decant the starter leaving it in the fridge for few days. Is is possible to do it in this case?
Thanks
I use a clean stainless strainer and just dump it directly into the wort. It’s pretty much impossible to get bacteria to floc, so I just dump it all in.
1) I DON’T want to use a stir plate because that’ll bring Oxygen in, which will impart off flavors….correct? Or with the Airlock, does the stirring help even out the growth?
2) Will there be a lacto-cake like with a yeast starter? I’m hoping to pour the excess beer/wort off, save some in an old sanitized White Labs vial or two, and pitch the rest. Will that work?
1) Correct. You don’t need stir plate and want to keep oxygen out.
2) I’ve never seen lacto floc or form any kind of cake, just pour some of the starter into a vial and stash it in the fridge.
Good luck!
What about a Pediococcus starter? Anything different, or follow the same procedure?
I have not heard of folks attempting a pedio starter, nor have I tried it myself. My understanding is that pedio grows relatively slowly, but in a similar environment as lacto. I’d wager you could get away with a 1L starter with a similar procedure, just give it a week or so before pitching.
Thanks for that, really helpful. I’m wondering if I could add some carbonated water to my sour mash/kettle to purge oxygen instead of using a CO2 tank (since I don’t have one). Thoughts?
This is a great idea, I do it pretty frequently myself!
Could you use phosphoric acid instead of lactic acid to lower the pH?
Yep, I talked to a few pro brewers at NHC who mentioned they drop the pH for a kettle sour using phosphoric acid. I’ve never done it myself, so you’re on your own for experimenting with amounts 🙂
One last set of Q’s :
Heat the carbonated water to 120? Boil it first? Trust it to be ok straight out of the bottle?
Thanks!
If you pour it from a freshly opened bottle it should be fine. I never heat it or worry about sanitizing it. You’re realistically only pouring a few oz in, so temp does not drop too much.
Great and informative article…kind of a tangent comment…for the reptil heating pad do you have it wrapped in foil? I have the same one and one side has a sticker like texture…I was just wondering how you use yours?
Yeah, I put the aluminum foil on the sticky side. Figured it would be heat resistant and remove all the stickiness 🙂
The starter smells REALLY sour – almost lemon-y… but also kind of vinegar-ish. I’ve had this happen in the past using Lacto-D without doing a ‘starter’ per se. The brew tastes fine when served just above freezing, but when it warms up it’s damn near undrinkable. Should I chance it, or do I likely have an acetobacter infection? Short of a microscope, is there anyway to tell?
Also, if I were to use it and my beer is already fermented, how much of an impact would acetobacter have Vs Lacto-D?
Also, I poured that beer for friends who suggested it wasn’t aceto… Is there any chance too much oxygen just caused the lactic acid to oxidize the beer/wart/starter (hence the ‘vinegar-ish but not vinegar’ scent), and it would be safe to use?
Here’s a good way to test the difference: take a clean, light beer (e.g. Bud Light) and dose a bit with vinegar, that’s acetic. If you have it on-hand, dose a second batch with 88% Lactic Acid.
It could just be you’re not accustomed to LAB character or maybe there’s some other organism producing character (yeast, Brett, who knows) that’s mixing with the lactic acid.
Are you hot-side souring or doing a mixed-culture fermentation? If hot side souring you’ll drop the pH and boil before any Acetobacter can produce acetic acid (also, low O2 and no alcohol will neutralize any chances for Acetobacter). If you’re doing a mixed fermentation (i.e. lacto + yeast concurrently) I’d worry about bad acetic character and would consider re-trying the starter.
What do you mean by undrinkable? Highly acidic or highly acetic (or something else)?
1) I did a delbruekii starter in extra light DME ~ 125 F, and held the temp for 12 hours before it started dropping. Hit 85 around day 2. I did use a stir plate, but only for about 15 minutes before the boil to ensure the DME was fully dissolved. I didn’t use Lactic acid to drop the PH, but that’s because the instructions for using pitchable bugs left it out. I had about 3 inches of headspace in my 2l flask
2) I believe it’s just highly acidic. There’s certainly a difference in the taste of a shot of my starter and a shot of vinegar. The starter has a sour-dough and lemon finish to it.
Yeah, if you pitched a pure vial there likely isn’t any infection. My guess is it’s just a much lower pH than you’ve experienced before 🙂
(Next time leave out the stir plate)
Hi, Trying my first sour I have a vial of 677 L. delbrueckii I am only making a 3.25 gallon batch which is about 5g preboil. Should I cut everything in half? Anything different from the raw grain method above and a pure strain, other than the grain?
A 1L starter should be plenty, you should be fine cutting everything in half.
The only thing that’s different with a pure pitch is that you don’t need to pre-acidify (or add the grains).
thanks, i’ll let you know how it goes.
Hi There, I have a vial of WLP630 which is a mixed culture of german wizen yeast and lactobacillus. I’m wondering how to do a starter for this as they have contrasting favourable conditions. Should I do it anaerobically at moderate pH?
Mixed cultures are a challenge, since doing a starter can throw off the balance of the mix. I’ve always just heard you should pitch mixed cultures as-is.
one question about topping off with carbonated water? Doesn’t this addition (if made in excessive amount) brings up ph and lower the specific gravity of the starter? I think you mean to top off with a small amount of carb water..there’s a maximum amount of it?
If you’re topping up you should only be adding maybe 5% more water, so the dilution and pH increase will be minimal. If you’re adding much more than that I would recommend using a smaller flask.
oh obviously that make sense..but as i’m new to these things i’ve made i mistake from the beginning using a flask too big, so in the end i’ve used about 25% of carb water for topping off..yeah i know is a stupid mistake. The only thing that keeps me on the way to go for it is that i’ve made another error adding too much lactid acid, so the ph before carb water addition has dropped to 4.1 and after carb water addition that has risen back to 4.35. So i would like to hope that the two errors eliminate each other….does this make sense or it’s better to discard it all and start again? My idea is (today is the second day of the starter) measuring ph e SG of the starter, tasting it and if all is in the right range then to go ahead…what do you think about it?
I find that as long as I’m in the right ballpark for gravity, volume, and pH it’ll all come out in the end. As long as you’re within ~0.3 or so of starting pH I haven’t had any trouble with the starter.
4.2 pH is optimal, but even if you’re a little higher than that you’re significantly inhibiting the other spoiling organisms, which is the important things.
i’m keep going with this..so today i brewed and right now the fresh wort is entering in my fermentation chamber at 110°f. I’m keep going but not without many doubts if i’m doing right…first i’ve to say that yesterday the starter ph was 3.0 with a little pellicle in it, it smelled lactic, without off-flavour and it tasted good. Today, opened once again it has a heavy with pellicle, and it smells more like acetic or solventy, not very much, but i can smell it, something has changed from yesterday. Even now i don’t feel others off-flavour like butyrric..but…what’s going on? It’s acetobacter…?? I’ve that even some strain lacto tend to produce acetic acid…don’t know..
Do you think i can go for it, trying to contnue with this batch, keeping controlled wort ph or there’s no chance for having a good sour beer from this and it’s better to discard it??
anyway i’ve pre-acidified at 4.45ph the main wort and now it’s running in the fermented really really and topped-off with almost no headspace. After it’ll be soured i’m planning to boil it, and then to pitch wine yeast in combo with a stater of brett bruxellensis.
I think you’ll be fine, even if there’s a slight acetic character in the starter. Consider that 1) acetobacter needs alcohol and oxygen to make acetic acid (and there hopefully will be very little of either during your souring) and 2) you’re going to be boiling after souring.
I think you’ll be surprised at how quickly it’s going to sour, I’d be ready ~24 hours later to finish your boil and pitch your yeasts. Let me know how it goes!
A big thank you for your help! I’ll keep you updated in next hours.. 🙂
Ok, i give you your daily update 🙂 Yesterday evening, after 25 hours of souring i’ve measured ph, it was 3.25, so i’ve immediately boiled the wort, hopped, chilled, and pitched the two yeast. Pitching rate for wine yeast was doubled considering the acidid environrment (i’ve pitched it as it was a lager), and i’ve co-inoculated the starter of brett bruxellensis from wyeast. No nutrients added, and i’ve oxygenated the wort manually and heavily. Then it all went to my ferm chamber at 22°c.
From then now it’s 11 hours, well the lag phase seems long, i’ve used lalvin wine yeast rc212 before and i know it’s a quiet strain but this time it seems very very calm..the only visible difference from yesterday and now is the lower layer on the bottom of fermentor this is reduced (??). I hope this strain can handle this acidic environment and hope it’s just behaving lager-like. The 3.25 ph of wort from the beginning and the adding of the brett starter that is has a low ph too, well it makes me worry..
If in the next hours i’ll see a stuck fermentation i would try to boil some wort with dme and add it to the wort for rising a bit the ph, hoping that this acidic environment hasn’t weaked too much the yeast but it should not, considering that the practice of yeast washing takes down the ph wort even to 2.0/2.5 without damaging that much….am i wrong? it is a correct way to proceed??
P.S. There’s another option that came to my mind. In case it is a specific strain problem, i could even pitch a rehydrated packet of us05..i’ve read that the us05 works well at low ph, especially in a combo with brett..
done both things yesterday evening, extra wort added, ph rised back to 3,5 and fresh us05 yeast added too..fermentantion finally started! 🙂 I’ll see how it proceed..
Glad to hear it! I find the low pH increases the lag phase quite a bit, but I’ve never had it fail on me.
Just stumbled across this post so I am not sure if anyone is monitoring it anymore but just had some questions about the reptile heater. Did you have a temp controller hooked up to the pad or did you just monitor the temp of the starter,
Thanks in advance!
Yep, still monitoring!
No temp controller, just let that baby go as high as it wanted. I found that with ~4+ gallons starting in the high 110ºF range the reptile heater pad on full blast mostly just maintained the temp. It hovered right around ~110ºF the entire time.
The pads aren’t designed to scorch the lizards, so there’s no real worry about over-heating the wort unless you’re doing a really tiny batch size, e.g. < 1 gallon.
How long is too long to keep the starter? Friends and I made the started but won’t be able to brew for another couple of weeks. Can it be maintained for a long period of time?
A good question! I’ve never kept mine for much longer than a couple of days, my concern would be the lacto would lower the pH so far they’d off themselves.
However, my friend has had good success saving his lacto cultures in apple juice for months at a time. Maybe transfer the starter to an apple juice blend and add a little chalk to keep the pH from getting to low.
Tried this method for the first time this week. I’ve always used pure cultures for my starters in the past. I have to check the ph tonight but I had little to no activity in the airlock all week. Is this pretty normal for the grain method?
If you don’t have any contamination (Sacc, Brett, etc) a pure lacto starter shouldn’t have much activity. pH drop and maybe some turbidity is the best indication of a successful starter.
Thanks!
Have you tried dry hopping a sour? A friend and I have each tried this with a BW, mine was at a rate of 1oz/gal which I felt should be enough for such a light beer. But the end product was barely had any hop aroma or flavor.
I have and it turned out pretty decent. I think it’s pretty important which you use since you’ll need to overcome the sour character (unless you’re just looking to add complexity).
Which variety did you use? I think I used citra in mine.
I had used comet and equinox, my friend had used Nelson and HB so I was really surprised when his didn’t punch through more.
Thanks for this awesome post. If you could pick an ideal temp at which to hold the starter – or for holding the wort when sour mashing/worting – which would it be? I have a PID controller I use for DIY sous vide and can hold the erlenmeyer flask or carboy in a water bath exactly where I want it. I’ve seen sites toss around ideal temps anywhere from 100 to 120. Some say below 112 you have a spoiling risk. Others note at 120 the lacto gets stunned.
I generally shoot for 110F, but if you can control temp 112F is perfect. The important thing I’ve found is to pre-acidify, that should solve most of your potential problems.
thanks!
Would I need to change the PH of the wort before I pitch the starter?? Also, will my flask have to be used only for sours now or can I still use it for normal ales without contamination?
You want to drop the pH of the wort < 4.2 or so because lacto emits head degrading enzymes until they reach a lower pH. I use my flasks for all my starters: Sacc, Brett, lacto, sour dregs, etc. As long as you clean/boil real well you won't have any problems.
Great thanks! Can I use the Lactic Acid 88% for the 5gal of wort like I would use in the starter?
Yep! Exactly what I use. I think about 1 tbsp per 5 gal of wort.
Awesome, you’re the best!
I made my lacto starter about 36 hours ago with plan to brew on the 16th. Is that too far in advance? Will I start to get conversion to acetic acid? Was hoping that as long as it stays sealed and I didn’t mess with it it could sit at room temp that long. Thanks.
I haven’t personally tried storing a lacto starter that long, but I think it’ll work fine. I gave a buddy that stores his lacto for months in apple juice.
You could always try pouring a bit of your starter into some apple juice a day ahead of time to test the viability, it should sour it pretty quick.
Would I be better off throwing it in the fridge until brew day or making a 2nd small step in the starter to keep it fresh for a few more days?
Yeah, throw it in the fridge.
Cool. That’s what I’ll do. Thanks man.
Is it ok if my starter wort ended up being 4.0 ph at the beginning?
Yep, I’ve started at 3.9 in the past.
Great article!
Any need for sanitizing the unmilled grains before adding them to your starter? Also, do you add the lactic acid when starter is still hot (>200 F)?
Nope, you want all the critters on the grain! I add the lactic at the end of the boil, I don’t think it matters too much really. If you’re paranoid adding it above pasteurization temps would ensure nothing gets added from the acid.
I had a starter going with Lacto from Good Belly but I believe it got some yeast in it. The starter began fermenting and then I pitched it into my wort. 18 hrs. later, the wort was sour (PH 3.2) and was fermenting quite a lot. I went ahead and boiled it anyway and ended up 1.036 OG before adding US-05. It finished what I would consider quite high (1.015 FG). Not sure if I boiled the alcohol off, or maybe it seems that the alcohol carried over and stopped the fermentation prematurely. and advice?
thanks
Lacto will maybe ferment a couple of gravity points, what was your expected OG? Otherwise, Sacc has a hard time getting started in low pH environments (article), in the future you might consider two properly rehydrated packets or doing a low pH starter to acclimate the yeast to the low pH wort.
This article should help:
http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Saccharomyces#Fermentation_Under_Low_pH_Conditions
Hi,
Can I still make the starter if I don’t use any sorts of acid?
Thank you!
Yes, you absolutely can! The acid is there to give the lactobacillus a more favorable environment/head start over the other organisms, but the lacto will eventually drop the pH regardless and become the dominant organism.
Hi Derek, I kettled soured 25% of my wort and planned to blend back with the main wort. However, I added the yeast already to the main wort while I soured the rest for 3–4 days. I pasteurized and cooled the 25% to wait to blend, should I throw some yeast in there too?
Hi Derek, I made a starter on Tuesday as per your instructions to put into mash on Saturday. Did I make it too early?
Cheers
James
Hmm… a good question. There’s a risk of the lacto dropping the pH so low they end up axing themselves, but in practice I’ve yet to reach that limit. I’m going to wager that you’re probably fine, though next time I’d make it a bit closer to your brew day.
How much closer?
I usually start mine two days or so before I plan to use them.
I made a starter with grains like you described. Left it a few days and the ph dropped nicely. It bubbled a little as well like it was fermentating though. When I was ready to pitch it smelled like fresh sour dough bread. Threw it in my wort after boil to sour for two days. Problem was the lacto starter ended up fermentating the wort before I could pitch the sach yeast. Could I have gotten a wild yeast from the grain? Or something else? I dropped the ph of the starter to about 4.5 before throwing in grains but maybe my ph strips are not that accurate. Any info going forward would be great!
Yeah, it’s definitely possible that you got some wild yeast in there, I consider it part of the charm of doing a grain starter vs pure pitch.
I generally advocate only letting the kettle souring to go for ~24 hours so that the other critters don’t take hold; I find most of the pH drop happens in that time and you’ll maybe only get a few .1/.2 pH drop after that. Though I do find it hard to believe that a wild strain would be able to ferment out in two days
Thanks for the advice. I don’t believe it did a full fermentation in two days and I didn’t take a gravity reading before pitching my sach yeast but there was definitely a krausen forming and co2 produced. It also has a solvent like taste that I think comes from fermentating at souring temperatures. I went ahead and dry hopped and kegged it anyways in the hopes that it’ll mellow. Next time I’ll try pitching after 24 hours and see if I can get a better result.
Cheers
Head scratcher here….could use some help…first 4 starters I made were fine, last three had slight isovelric smell/ parm cheese. Ended up tossing all 3. 2 were done with grains, one pure culture. Equipment has been used for clean beer, no issues, thinking it’s not coming from there. Purged with c02 best possible. Sterilized wort, and careful with sanitation. At a loss. Thought it was coming from grain but pure culture had same issue. Any ideas?
Hmm… is this coming from the starters, or the finished sour products? I’m wondering if you have some wild yeast somewhere in your brewery that’s getting in.
Are you dropping the pH of the starter at the start?
Smell was present in starters, and carried over into the beer first 2 times, just dumped the starter last time. Adjusted ph down first 2 times, not the last time. Flask was sterile, boiled dme for 15 etc. but since all three smelled exactly the same, maybe I misdiagnosed isovaleric and it’s a wild yeast or bacteria living in my heat/cool converted wine fridge. No effect on the clean beers though.
Taste of the starter was actually very good, just the off smell.
Followed this post tonight, only to get to the last step and realise my stopper doesn’t fit on my flask… d’oh! I’ve covered with foil for now… but any ideas?
If you’re using a hot water bath at the right temp and dropped the pH at the start you’re likely in the clear. You want to give the lacto the biggest advantage while giving the other bugs a big disadvantage, so doing most of the steps will still produce good results.
Hey Derek, thanks for the two earlier replies. Super helpful!
One more question – If I need to brew on Saturday, and I made my starter on Tuesday night, would you recommend more time growing the starter or more time souring the wort? i.e., I could grow the starter from tues — wed evening, then do my mash-in and initial boil then pitch the lacto, which would give it from wed — sat to sour. Or I could leave the starter until Thursday evening (48h), then pitch into the wort, which would only give ~36h of souring in the kettle. Any thoughts?
I’ve found that with my starters I can get my wort pretty sour within ~24-36 hours. If you plan on finishing your brew Saturday I think if you pitched your lacto Thursday evening or Friday morning that will be plenty of time to get sour.
Legend, thanks so much man!
Back again, attempting this a second time. This time my starter has some funky white goop growing on the bottom – I don’t remember seeing that on the first attempt. Is that normal and to be expected?
Could be wild yeast that was on the grains. How does it smell? Are you keeping it at ~110F? Did you pre-acidify?
Sorry should have been more specific. I used a vial of lacto delbrueckii from white labs and yes I pre-acidified to 4.2
Oh and yes, keeping at 110. Smells like lacto – no bad smells
Great article! I’ve done a sour in the past using lacto from grain but want to try a sour pitch from omega. I typically bank my yeast in the freezer with glycerin and was hoping to save some of the lacto so not to re buy. What’s the best way? Thanks in advance!
Cheers,
Dan
Great article! I’ve done a sour in the past using lacto from grain but want to try a sour pitch from omega. I typically bank my yeast in the freezer with glycerin and was hoping to save some of the lacto so not to re buy. What’s the best way? Thanks in advance!
Cheers,
Dan
A buddy of mine likes storing his lacto in a jug of apple juice. Not sure how long it’ll store since he brews pretty frequently. Probably a month or two would be fine.
I like the sounds of this! I recently read about the co souring technique in which hop tea is added to the wort when the ph reaches the desired level which kills the lacto. The idea being you don’t have to boil again. Do you think this is a good idea when you don’t know exactly what bacteria are growing? (Also I like the benefits of avoiding a separate bottling bucket) Bit of a newbie here but love sours.
Cheers,
Mark
I think if you’re trying to suppress sourness, but want to “let it ride” with whatever wild yeast is present this might be pretty interesting. Just keep in mind that there’s plenty of other non-bacteria organisms that wouldn’t be suppressed by the hops that will continue to grow. I suppose it would be a good way to encourage a more funk forward character.
Hey what a great thread, thanks for keeping it going. I am using your techniques to create a lacto starter using Wyeast 5335 (splitting one packet between 2 5-gallon batches so trying to use the starter approach to stretch it a bit too). I had a couple of questions:
Is there any way to guesstimate when the starter is “done” or “ready”? I realize that’s a gray area.
If my lacto source is a pure strain like Wyeast 5335, do you recommend pre-souring the wort with lactic acid before pitching the lacto starter?
Thanks …..